Amanda Nguyen: “We Came On Boats, and Now We’re On Spaceships”

Centering the perspectives, experiences, and leadership of women and girls of color is foundational to our work here at Pivotal. So when women and girls of color resoundingly told us that violence was one of the biggest barriers holding them back, we listened—and made supporting the movement to end violence a cornerstone of our strategy.

Amanda Nguyen—as a survivor herself, as the founder of Rise (an organization we're proud to support), and now as the first Vietnamese woman set to go to space—is a perfect example of why we fund leaders at the forefront of this work: We want to ensure all women and girls have the opportunity to reach their fullest potential. We recently caught up with Amanda to learn more about what it'll mean to achieve her dream of going to space, how practicing radical empathy helps sustain her activism, and what gives her hope for the future. This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.

Pivotal: Let’s start with the big news, which is that you’re going to space—and you’ll be the first Vietnamese woman to go! Congratulations! What does it mean to you to be able to fulfill this dream? What message do you hope it sends the world?

Amanda: Thank you. I'm so grateful to be able to step into this role. My parents are boat refugees from Vietnam. We came on boats, and now we're on spaceships. To me, that represents the resiliency of our community, but I hope it also inspires other people to know that they belong in these spaces. I’m the first, but I won’t be the last. I want young Vietnamese, Southeast Asian, Asian-American women to see this and understand that they deserve to dream big. Even if those dreams are literally out of this world, we can achieve it.

Pivotal: Earlier this year, you traveled to Vietnam, your ancestral homeland, where you retraced your mother’s boat journey as a refugee. You also explored the palace of your great aunt, who was an Empress of Vietnam (!). What was it like reconnecting with that history? How does your family’s past influence your present and future?

Amanda: When I look up at the stars, I'm reminded that we are just a blink in the universe. It makes me feel really humbled, but also so special. I felt the same way learning the history of my family in Vietnam. My father came from the royal family, and my mother came from rural farmers. It was a deeply meaningful experience to understand how war impacts our world, but also to understand resilience and how history can turn out.

My family's coat of arms is a dragon. All my life, I thought I was a phoenix, and it turns out I was a dragon. When I think about these symbols that are so meaningful to my community, I want folks to understand that we can heal, but especially women for color, that we can step into our power. I think the patriarchy has gaslit so many of us into forgetting the light we hold inside, and there are so many forces that keep that light from shining, whether it be gender-based violence, inequality, restrictions on our bodies. I’m grateful to have come from women of power, in the halls of palaces but also on boats and farms.

Pivotal: Ending racial, sexual, and gender-based violence—which disproportionately impacts women and girls of color, who sit at the intersection of all three—is one of Pivotal’s priorities. And it’s one of yours, too. Tell us about your advocacy on behalf of survivors of sexual violence, including through your organization Rise.

Amanda: I originally wanted to be an astronaut. Being an activist was born out of necessity. During my last semester of college, I was assaulted. I went to the hospital, I had a rape kit procedure done, and I found out that my rape kit could be destroyed at six months—even if it was untested. When I spoke up about what happened to me, so many other women, especially women of color, reached out and expressed how difficult it was to navigate a broken criminal justice system. I chose to put a pause on my astronaut dreams and fight for my rights.

I formed Rise, a nonprofit that advocates for survivors of sexual violence and also advocates for gender equality on behalf of the Asian American Pacific Islander (AAPI) community. We passed the Survivors’ Bill of Rights unanimously through Congress. When President Obama signed it into law, we heard from people all over the world that they wanted to fight for this on an international level. We took it to the United Nations and passed the first-ever United Nations General Assembly resolution for survivors of sexual violence.

Pivotal: You’ve spoken about the power of “radical empathy,” or the practice of temporarily setting aside our own biases to better understand someone’s point of view, even if we don’t agree with it, so we can drive change. That has been critical in your own advocacy work—I mean, you’ve passed more than 65 laws! Why do you think radical empathy is so important, and how do you practice it while preserving your own joy and wellbeing?

Amanda: Radical empathy is one of the most difficult things to practice because it’s often unfair to ask trauma survivors to be empathetic to folks. Those who use [radical empathy] should be in a place of healing. It’s important to understand that we want to negotiate with the human being, not necessarily with the systems and institutions that make it seem so daunting.

A lot of people think that when we [Rise] go and talk to heads of states, the most important thing is their track record or how they’ve voted. It's not—for me at least. It's their hobbies. If they love makeup, I'll talk about that. If they love space, I'll talk about that. It’s often very disarming. By addressing these larger-than-life politicians or celebrities as human beings, I’m telling them that I’m not there to only see them as a vessel for what I want to accomplish. Perhaps they can then see my humanity, too. That takes a lot of healing. In the beginning, it was not like that…I was so angry. Anger can fuel, but that fuel will eventually run out. I think what truly sustains movements is hope and what gives people hope is humanity.

Pivotal: Our founder, Melinda French Gates, has spoken a lot about how her experience navigating the male-dominated tech sector inspired her efforts to help women break into the field and rise to positions of leadership within it. As both an astronaut and an advocate, what do you hear from women in STEM and elsewhere about the kind of support they need to thrive at work?

Amanda: There's a group of U.S. women astronauts and we call ourselves “Space Sisters.” That community has been life saving for me, because all of us have faced vitriol for succeeding in a male-dominated space. I received so many trolls when it was announced I was going to space. And the trolls are not creative. I get “Make me a sandwich” multiple times a day. And I think to myself, well, if I made one in space, come get it. Go become an astronaut.

But to answer your question, I think the big dream is freedom. Freedom from violence. Freedom to walk down the street at night without having to clutch our keys. Freedom to not have that immense tax on our mental health. I know that this is something that all women, especially women of color, have had to deal with. So many men aren't even aware that it’s a burden we carry.

Pivotal: In addition to going to space, you’re also a Nobel Peace Prize nominee, a 2022 TIME Woman of the Year, a L’Officiel Vietnam Woman of Our Time awardee—we could go on and on listing your accomplishments! It’s inspiring to see all the ways you’re showcasing your range. How do you navigate people who question your ability to hold space in all those areas?

Amanda: We're all multitudes, so to those who are haters, I say: Come get your sandwich in space.

Pivotal: What gives you hope for the future?

Amanda: People give me hope for the future. I think there's so much rightful anxiety about the way that massive global events are playing out, but every day I get up and go to work and do the day-to-day grind of moving that needle forward. That might seem not as glamorous, but it’s the steady drumbeat of marching forward…one foot in front of the next. I know from what I see on the ground that change is possible. I know it because I've lived it, but also because so many organizers, like our Risers, are leading it.

Pivotal: Do you have any final thoughts you’d like to share?

Amanda: When I launch into space, the person I will be thinking of the most is my survivor self—the person I was before I was hurt. I made a promise to her that when I paused my dreams, I wouldn't forget her. I think that we all have a version of this person inside of us. We all have the ability to answer our childhood dreams. To anyone who's ever had to pause their dreams, just know that it's still possible and the only person that gets to decide is you.